Obama & McCain in Faith Forum for Christian Voters

Last night, Sen. Barack Obama and Sen. John McCain were interviewed at the Saddleback Church by Sr. Pastor Rick Warren (author of A Purpose Driven Life) on CNN. The Christian evangelical audience was treated to two hour long one-on-one interviews of the two presidential nominees by the pastor of the church. Both candidates were more or less asked the same questions and were given as much time as necessary to respond.

The event was moderated by Rick Warren, the author of the best-selling "The Purpose Driven Life" and one of the country's most prominent evangelical preachers. Warren, a Southern Baptist, referred to both McCain and Obama as friends in his introductions. "They both care deeply about America," Warren said. "They're both patriots."

The evening was painted as a portrait of contrast: where Obama was thoughtful, humble, and measured in his responses; McCain was direct, arrogant, and very definitive. Obama delivered shades of gray and nuance. McCain was simplistic, very black-and-white in his responses.
The candidates were asked questions in the following areas:

• Greatest Moral Failing (Personal & United States)
  
  • Obama response: He expounded on his selfishness and concern for self during his youth (personal) and the government's tendency to forget the least of us (US).
    
  • McCain reponse: The failure of his first marriage (personal) and Americans haven't done enough to serve others (US).
    
  
  
• Faith in Jesus
  
  • Obama response: He talked about leaning on the wisdom of Jesus and using his faith to help make decisions.
    
  • McCain reponse: When he was a POW in Viet Nam, apparently one of the guards was a Christian; he cited two examples of this guard demonstrating their shared faith.
    
  
  
• Three Wisest People for Advise
  
  • Obama response: Obama chose his wife, Michelle; his grandmother; and a group of politicians that included former senator Sam Nunn, a Democrat from Georgia, and Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK).
    
  • McCain reponse: McCain chose named General David H. Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq; Meg Whitman, a campaign adviser; and Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), an Obama supporter whom McCain praised for his courage during the civil rights movement.
    
  
  
• Definition of Marriage
  
  • Obama response: Union between a man and a woman, but agrees with the states' right to create civil unions for same-sex couples. "I can afford those civil rights to others even if I don't have ... that view."
    
  • McCain reponse: Union between a man and a woman... PERIOD!
    
  
  
• Stance on Abortion
  
  • Obama response: Pro-choice, not pro-abortion. He offered probably his most nuanced answer to this question, where he believes that work should be done to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies that lead to abortion.
    
  • McCain reponse: Pro-life, believes that life begins at conception... "I will be a pro-life president."
    
  
  
• Use of Stem Cell Research
  
  • Obama response: Supports stem cell research using embryonic cells that are slated to be destroyed, but favors finding other "less controversial" methods, as well.
    
  • McCain reponse: Although, he believes life begins at conception, he supports the use of embryonic cells for stem cell research... confusion?
    
  
  
• How to Deal with Evil
  
  • Obama response: He believes that evil can be found everywhere and it must be understood before it can be confronted. Once again, he balanced evil in Dafur with evil that is found right here in the United States!
    
  • McCain reponse: He fell into "stump speech mode" and only talked about bringing Osama bin Laden to justice (even if it takes him to the gates of Hell) as if that is the ONLY EVIL in the world - but this did lead to the biggest applause line of the evening.
    
  
  
• What Supreme Court Justices Should Not Have Selected
  
  • Obama response: Clarence Thomas ("I don't think he was a strong enough jurist or a legal thinker at the time for that. I profoundly disagree with his interpretation of the Constitution."), Antonin Scalia (because he doesn't agree with his politics), but he had praise for Chief Justice John Roberts.
    
  • McCain reponse: He rattled off the four liberal justices (Ginsburg, Breyer, Souter, and Stephens) without much explanation... went into a short diatribe about legislating from the Bench (old Republican sound bite).
    

Read the CNN.com coverage about the about Faith Forum here and here.

Read the Jack Cafferty review, from CNN.com, of John McCain's performance here.

Read the Washington Post article about the Faith Forum here.

Andrew Sullivan did a live blog of the Obama and McCain interviews.

plez sez: this was easily the most thought provoking and revealing look at the presumptive Democratic and Republican nominees for president. neither candidate dodged the questions, but both candidates varied greatly in the way that they approached answering the questions. and i feel, both offered a keen insight into the way they would approach issues that will undoubtedly crop up during their administration.

Obama was thoughtful, measured, deliberate, and quite humble in his approach. he didn't rely on cliche', didn't go after sound bites. his answers were well-thought and analytical... and in many cases, he offered both sides of an issue for consideration.

on the other hand, McCain played directly to the markedly conservative audience and leaned heavily on sound bite answers to questions. a number of his answer were so short, that the moderator had time to ask him additional questions that he did not ask of Obama.

i watched the program with plezWife; we both came away with the same assessment: Barack Obama is far and away the best person for leading this country forward, because his lack of jingoism and extreme arrogance allows him the ability to think through issues without promulgating and playing petty politics with serious issues. in stark contrast, McCain's performance was chilling in his hardline views, short snappy answers, and total lack of introspection. at no point during the entire hour interview, did john mccain once stop and take a long hard look at himself, humble himself, and then offer a thought-provoking response (i.e. his greatest moral failing was that his first marriage came to an end - he offered no thoughts as to why, nor did he even take part of the responsibility for it... as he put it, the marriage came to an end... PERIOD).

more than ever, the united states would be creating a GRAVE ERROR by voting john mccain into the white house. he exhibited the same "cowboy attitude" that precipitated the 5-year war in iraq, he leaned on the same "evil button" as george w. bush (terrorism, al-qaeda, and osama bin laden), and provided little or no insight into how he thinks. the thought of a mccain administration following 8 years of george w. bush SCARES ME!

plezWorld feels that anyone who thinks that john mccain will improve the united states is delusional. VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA... the world depends on it!

What is Sin?

With the dawn will come Good Friday, to some, the beginning of the most sacred three days in Christianity. Actually, the whole notion of Christianity hinges on Easter and the notion that Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected on the third day to sit at the right hand of God.

But if the notion of sin no longer exists, will that portend the end of religion, as we know it? Between Two Worlds poses a similar question, "[A]s Easter approaches, some pastors and theologians worry: How can Christians celebrate Jesus' atonement for their sins and the promise of eternal life in his resurrection if they don't recognize themselves as sinners?"

Friday's edition of USA Today had an article that asked this question: is the "notion of sin" lost? plezWorld ain't at church every Sunday, but I have spent a great of time in church and was raised "knowing" that Jesus was nailed to the cross for me and my sinful ways. But now that I think about it... when is the last time that I considered a thought or action of mine to be a sin?



I'm still thinking...



And when you think about all the bad things that people do to each other with impunity and with the seeming loss of morality in this world, one has to wonder whatever happened to that little governor within us that said "thou shall not sin"? What about the Seven Deadly Sins: greed, lust, gluttony, and the rest of them? Is greed still a sin?

The USA Today article continues:

Take it from Pope Benedict XVI. He says the modern world "is losing the notion of sin." And not just personal sins such as greed, lust or the rest of the infamous Seven Deadlies, but social sins, too, such as polluting the planet or allowing injustice to flourish.

Pope Benedict, in his prayers last week, said, "People who trust in themselves and in their own merits are, as it were, blinded by their own 'I,' and their hearts harden in sin. On the other hand, those who recognize themselves as weak and sinful entrust themselves to God, and from him obtain grace and forgiveness."

Since the old sins aren't quite as deadly anymore... are there some new sins that we need to be concerned about? The article answers that question, too... Ellison Research conducted a poll in August 2007 and released the following results for the percentage of Americans who felt an action or thought was a sin:

Adultery: 81%

Racism: 74%

Using "hard" drugs, such as cocaine, LSD: 65%

Not saying anything if a cashier gives you too much change: 63%

Having an abortion: 56%

Homosexual activity or sex: 52%

Not reporting some income on your tax returns: 52%

Reading or watching pornography: 50%

Gossip: 47%

Swearing: 46%

Sex before marriage: 45%

Homosexual thoughts: 44%

Sexual thoughts about someone you are not married to: 43%

Doing things as a consumer that harm the environment: 41%

Smoking marijuana: 41%

Getting drunk: 41%

Gambling: 30%

Not attending church or religious services regularly: 18%

Drinking any alcohol: 14%

Read the entire USA Today article here.


plez sez: based on this updated list... from top to bottom, i'm a sinner! there's a lot more stuff that i've done on the list, than stuff i haven't done on the list (and i can't have an abortion!)... i would suggest that you not stand too close to me if you don't want to get struck by lightning! *smile*

just curious... do you believe in sin? do you believe in hell? how many sins on the list above have you committed?



plezWorld loves art, especially old oil paintings, so i was intrigued by the imagery that was invoked by the picture that was chosen for this post.

picture description(from the Britain Tate exhibit): Satan, Sin, and Death from Milton's "Paradise Lost" by William Hogarth circa 1735-40 - Sin intervenes between the armed figures of Satan and Death as they prepare to fight at the gates of Hell. She is shown at the point of revealing to Satan that she is both his daughter and a former lover, and that the skeletal figure of Death is the offspring of their incestuous relationship.

[Sin] is pictured as if trapped and imprisoned by the many-headed tentacles that wrap themselves around her torso and writhe from her waist; furthermore, her expression and her gestures are tender and imploring, rather than malicious or manipulative. [Hogarth fuses] a feminised iconography of sentiment with a sublime and grotesque imagery of hell-fire, violence and monstrous masculinity.

Bishop Earl Paulk Goes to Jail

Earl Paulk, founder and Archbishop of the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit in Decatur, Georgia turned himself in on Tuesday evening after a warrant for his arrest was issued for a perjury charge. The perjury charge stems from testimony that the 80-year old Paulk gave during a sexual misconduct deposition last summer. If convicted, he faces up to 10 years in prison and $1,000 fine.

Read the entire Atlanta Journal-Constitution article here.

View pictures associated with Bishop Paulk here.


plez sez: i should insert a fitting quote here about putting one's faith in false prophets, but that would be too easy. and this whole story is so base, it should call into question ANYONE who dons a collar and calls himself a man of God!

this 80-year old coot was called in to give a deposition about alleged sexual misconduct that HE was conducting at his church over the past 4 decades. he claimed that he'd only screwed around with one church secretary. come to find out, DNA evidence shows that his 35-year old nephew, D.E. Paulk, a senior pastor in the church, is actually his son... yeah, old Earl was boning his younger brother's wife!

and it gets worse: one of his granddaughters claims that she was sexually assaulted on numerous occasions by this old man starting when she was only 7-years old!

one staffer claims to have been his "sex toy" for 14 years, with the old man claiming sex with him was her path to salvation. a number of former church employees and attendees have accused him of sexual molestation and sexual misconduct over the past 25 to 30 years!

there is no telling how many little girls were molested by this monster. how many women who went to church there fell into his trap of sexual deviancy? jail is too good for this pervert... my only hope that his old ass croaks before another dime is wasted on convicting him.

the street that runs past the church was renamed in his honor - Bishop Earl Paulk Parkway - i wonder how long it will take the county to remove the signs and rename it back to Flat Shoals Parkway!

it's scumbags like Earl Paulk who justify me not exposing my daughter to the falsehoods and lies of the church on sunday mornings. plezWorld was raised in the baptist church, went to sunday school every sunday, sung in the youth choir on the fourth sunday, and played my saxophone in every easter and christmas program i can remember. i occasionally feel twinge of guilt for not sharing the faith of my fathers with my daughter, and then money-grubbing and sex-starved perverts like Earl Paulk, Eddie Long, and Creflo Dollar (all local celebrity "preacherpimps") tell me that i'm right!

Read an excellent treatment of religion at Hypocrisy.

BLOG UPDATE (1/16/2008): the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that Earl Paulk plead guilty to perjury and received a $1,000 fine and 10 years of probation.

Two Atlanta Preachers Snub Senate Probe

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that metro Atlanta-based mega churches of Rev. Creflo Dollar, of World Changers Church in College Park and Bishop Eddie Long, of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Lithonia, have denied Sen. Charles Grassley's (R-Iowa) request for documents sought in a probe of nonprofits. A total of six mega churches, most of whom preach a version of Prosperity Gospel, were included in the probe.



The AJC quotes the church's reply to the senator's request:

The attorney for Dollar sent a letter that read in part, "...'Prosperity Gospel,' a deeply held religious belief that God's devout followers and earthly leaders will prosper and be successful in all they do, including in financial matters, as the outward expression of his favor."

... we believe that the religious doctrine and practices of a church should not be held out for the world to evaluate as a result of responding to Congressional inquiries."

The attorney for Long sent a letter that read in part, "[it] clearly disregards the privacy protections of the Church under law and appears to cross the line of Constitutional guarantees for churches."

Of the six requests, only Rev. Joyce Meyer, of Missouri, has complied with her church's financial records. In a written statement, Meyers says, "... this latest opportunity to demonstrate our commitment to transparency with our supporters and our dedication to the continual improvement of our own systems of accountability."


Read the entire AJC article here.


plez sez: let me state for the record, i wholeheartedly support the separation of church and state.

with that said, i find it unfathomable how one can ask for tax exempt or tax free status from the government, yet thwart the government to examine one's fitness for that status! it is obvious to me that these "prosperity preachers" are in IT for the money and cannot stand the glaring light of scrutiny into their ministries. i've visited one of the Atlanta-based mega churches and the ministry there is nothing like the religion i was raised with as a child... it is more commercial, more sanitized, more packaged... and frankly, far less inspirational. there is a profound emphasis on money and contributing money and counting your blessings of money and grandstanding about - you got it - money.

both churches do wonderful work in their respective communities, but i am concerned with the armored-car amounts of money that these preachers generate AND how this money is used to provide them with lavish lifestyles (large homes, expensive cars, jets, helicopters, and all the trappings of success). and if they happen to accidentally blurt out the name, Jesus... oh, never mind!

i do not work for the IRS, but i would think that if these "ministries" would like to maintain their tax exempt status, that they would have to submit financial records that support that status. and as Rev. Meyer wrote, shouldn't these churches want to be transparent with their constituents and the federal government which provides this tax exempt status? their fierce money grab and the attempt at obfuscation around the need to submit financial records makes me wonder if those "love offerings" and massive salaries are justified by our current tax code.

and since GOD made it possible for them to reap such huge rewards from their people, i'm sure this same GOD will watch over them during this government probe: if they have nothing to hide, i feel they should turn over their financial records.

Georgia Governor Prays for Rain

This is not a joke.

On Tuesday, November 13, 2007, Governor Sonny Perdue (R) joined more than 250 Georgians on the steps of the state capitol for a prayer vigil to ask God to rain on Georgia. Perdue told the audience, "We come here very reverently and respectfully to pray up a storm."

Georgia is coping with the worst drought in over 100 years and the few reservoirs in the state are quickly drying up. It is estimated that without rain, the state has little more than 100 days of water left. There are mandatory bans on outdoor watering and several landscaping businesses have already gone under with this drought.

There were a few stories about this prayer vigil in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (here and here), and CNN also covered the prayer vigil. Read more about the drought and its devastating effects on Georgia here.


plez sez: hmmmmmmm (wrinkling my brow while rubbing the stubble on my chin)...

the Guv'na of the Great State of Georgia is spending his lunch hour on the capitol steps praying for rain...

hmmmmm... not quite sure what to make of this. we haven't had any appreciable rainfall in the state since the middle of the summer. lake lanier, lake alatoona, and lake hartwell (i was up there 2 weeks ago) are drying up. but then again, the Army Corps of Engineers releases 3.2 billion gallons of water every day to Florida because there are some endangered mussels and sturgeon in those states that are protected by the federal government.

hmmmmmm... shouldn't we be saving every last drop of water in Georgia's lakes and reservoirs, rather than trying to hydrate some inedible snails and fish in Florida? maybe the Guv'na should have been praying that the Army Corps of Engineers would stop releasing so much of what little water we have left to basically flow out into the Gulf of Mexico? maybe the Guv'na should just send the Georgia Guard to stop the release of the water? whose gonna stop us, the National Guard is in Iraq keeping the oil flowing there!


maybe he should be doing something other than begging for a friggin' miracle on Peachtree Street?!?


hmmmmmm... isn't Georgia like DEAD LAST in SAT scores, nationally? lower than Alabama! lower than South Carolina! lower than Mississippi! lower than Louisiana! lower than Arkansas! maybe the Guv'na should have a prayer vigil for smarter kids? or pray for better teachers? or pray for better parents who send their kids to school ready to learn? or just pray for SAT scores that ain't at the bottom of the barrel!

hmmmmmm... hasn't this mess with predatory lending habits by mortgage companies plunged a substantial portion of Georgians into financial ruin and foreclosure? maybe Sonny Purdue should start praying that these people get big raises at work so they can pay their mortgage? or pray that the interest rates on their mortgages miraculously get lowered by the bankers who swindled the homeowners into signing for those mortgages in the first place? or pray that every person who is about to default on their mortgage wins the Lotto?

hmmmmmm... my daughter gave me a list of Christmas presents that is about as long as my arm, maybe the Guv'na can pray for Santa Claus to bring us all the gifts she wants? and while he's at it, he can pray for a white Christmas (i ain't seen one of those since i've been living in the South)?


sonny, the joke's on us... meaning all Georgians. i'm sure you meant well, but praying for something to happen isn't what i would expect the chief executive of one of our 50 states to use as his fall back plan. i doubt many people outside of your close family, friends, and those 250 wacko's who showed up at the capitol on yesterday are relying on your faith to end this drought... actually, i'd really prefer it if you'd keep your faith to yourself. there still ain't a cloud in the sky, i haven't watered my lawn in over a month, and another billion gallons of water are making its way down The Hooch to Florida!

next week: sonny purdue in a feather headdress joined by authentically clothed native americans doing traditional rain dance on the capitol steps!

BLOG UPDATE (11/15/2007):
guess what?!? it rained last night in georgia... and not only around PacMan Jones! a small cold front passed through the atlanta area and we got between a quarter and a half of inch of rain. that's not much rain, it won't raise the lake level any, but i guess it's a start. since the lakes are over 10 feet below normal, if it rains like this for the next 500 days we'll be in good shape!

so what do you know? prayer does work!

...and with this small miracle, maybe now the Guv'na can start working on the state's low SAT scores?

Zeitgeist - The Movie

plez sez: "Zeitgeist" comes in at just under 2 hours; this movie questions the basis of Christianity, the controversy surrounding September 11, 2001 (9/11), the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank and the Federal Income Tax, and history of profiteering from war. If you cannot watch this movie with an open mind and natural skepticism, then I recommend that you do not watch!

This is MORE POWERFUL than Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11.

After watching this video, I have begun to re-think everything that I have learned about anything. EVERYTHING!

hat tip: The Free Slave and Wandering the Ether